Season 1, Episode 1: Inciting Incident
Sue Campbell: Hi, this is Sue Campbell, and this is-
Nora Campbell: Yeah, I know.
Sue Campbell: … I’m talking to the audience Nora.
Nora Campbell: Oh, whoops.
Sue Campbell: (laughs) This is the Mommy’s Pen Podcast, I’m Sue Campbell, a writer and a children’s book author, and I’m here with my 11 year old daughter Nora. Nora, do you wanna say hi again?
Nora Campbell: Oh, yeah, sure. Hi.
Sue Campbell: (laughs) Uh, Nora, what book do you wanna talk about today?
Nora Campbell: Uh, My Name Is Victoria.
Sue Campbell: That’s a good one. And who wrote that?
Nora Campbell: Lucy Worsley.
Sue Campbell: And who the heck is Lucy Worsley?
Nora Campbell: Lucy Worsley is chief curator of hi- Historic Royal Palaces, also she’s a documentarist and you already know who she is.
Sue Campbell: What kind of documentaries does she do?
Nora Campbell: Historical documentaries.
Sue Campbell: So tell me about My Name Is Victoria. What’s the book about?
Nora Campbell: You should read it.
Sue Campbell: Well, I will. You need to tell the audience what it’s about. So if you were gonna tell one of your friends to read it, what would you say?
Nora Campbell: I would say this is a great book and you have to read it, and I can’t explain why because that would ruin it, but you just have to read it.
Sue Campbell: Okay, let’s try again. If you were writing a book review, or you had to say something (laughs) about the book…
Nora Campbell: (laughs)
Sue Campbell: … or a book report for school, what would you say?
Nora Campbell: I would say basically what I said earlier, except I would say this is a book about Miss. V. Conroy who is, um, a friend of Princess Victoria. She, um, is the daughter of John Conroy, which means that he’s tried to use her as a spy obviously ’cause that’s what happens. And … but she doesn’t wanna be a spy, and then … you haven’t read the end yet, so I can’t tell you what happens.
Sue Campbell: Right. I haven’t read the end, I’ve- I’ve read the beginning, and we don’t wanna spoil it for other people, but, um, it sounds like you’re saying, she doesn’t do what her dad wants, she ends up doing something different.
Nora Campbell: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Sue Campbell: Okay. So tell me a little bit about John Conroy, like how did you … how did you de- … how did you find out about this period and decide you wanted to read this book?
Nora Campbell: Well, I was just watching this documentary and John Conroy is basically the financial advisor of the Duchess of Kent, who was Princess Victoria’s mother, and he basically dictates whatever happens i- … at Kensington Palace, which is where the, uh, Princess Victoria is growing up. And he basically is in charge of everything and messes everything up.
Sue Campbell: How does he mess it up?
Nora Campbell: Well, he makes everything revolve around himself and he steals money and goods and stuff, and also he looks like a monkey.
Sue Campbell: (laughs) So he’s the villain, right?
Nora Campbell: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Sue Campbell: ‘Cause usually like protagonists don’t like look like monkeys.
Nora Campbell: Unless they are monkeys.
Sue Campbell: All right. So let’s talk, um, a minute about Martha and the Boys.
Nora Campbell: Okay.
Sue Campbell: Um, Martha and the Boys, which it’s not called Martha and the Boys anymore, but what do you remember about when I first wrote that book?
Nora Campbell: I remember there was a lot of cleaning dishes and it was sort of boring, and there were a lot of lawnmowers.
Sue Campbell: Oh, in the story?
Nora Campbell: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Sue Campbell: (laughs)
Nora Campbell: What? That’s what I remember.
Sue Campbell: So you were six years old when I first started writing that story, and we had-
Nora Campbell: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Sue Campbell: … when I s- … this novel, um, and we had a week off together, in the s-
Nora Campbell: Yep, I remember that. It was great.
Sue Campbell: Yeah.
Nora Campbell: Except it wasn’t great, because it was summertime.
Sue Campbell: You don’t like summertime?
Nora Campbell: Of course not.
Sue Campbell: What don’t you like about summer?
Nora Campbell: It’s just like warm and full of mosquitoes.
Sue Campbell: Yeah.
Nora Campbell: And unpleasant.
Sue Campbell: Well, when you were six, you didn’t really seem to complain it very much.
Nora Campbell: But s-
Sue Campbell: But, right, we had had a, um, a visit from some friends earlier that summer, uh, who has a daughter who was 11 years old at the time, and her name was Martha and she told us-
Nora Campbell: Yeah, I remember.
Sue Campbell: Yeah. And she told us … she was giving us ideas for books to read, ’cause you were starting to get into longer books, and she told us about The Penderwicks.
Nora Campbell: And we went out for dinner to that really great place with the great fried eggs.
Sue Campbell: Yes, and everyone was super impressed that you ate an entire steak by yourself.
Nora Campbell: It was a great steak.
Sue Campbell: (laughs) Um, and then we read The Penderwicks.
Nora Campbell: Yep, and it was great.
Sue Campbell: It was a good read.
Nora Campbell: And the last one just came out and I just read it, and that was sad.
Sue Campbell: Yeah, it’s sad that that was the last book.
Nora Campbell: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Sue Campbell: Mm-hmm (affirmative), even though it had a pretty happy ending.
Nora Campbell: Not really.
Sue Campbell: What wasn’t happy about it?
Nora Campbell: Wait, I can’t remember what happened at the end. Oh, yeah, that was sort of happy.
Sue Campbell: Yeah. Everybody got married and Lydia got to stay at Arundel a little longer. Anyway, but after reading The Penderwicks, um, I had never written for kids before, but I decided that that book was so much fun that I wanted to try to create something that would make people feel a similar way, um, to the way that we felt after reading The Penderwicks.
Nora Campbell: Yeah.
Sue Campbell: And I had no idea what I was doing (laughs). So-
Nora Campbell: And it was kind of terrible.
Sue Campbell: It was pretty terrible.
Nora Campbell: But I didn’t think that at the time.
Sue Campbell: No, but that’s okay, because anytime anybody puts down a first draft, there are … it’s bound to be terrible in at least a few ways, right?
Nora Campbell: Yeah.
Sue Campbell: Uh, I wrote in, uh, about 10 days, uh-
Nora Campbell: Which is great, and I kept hounding to write more, ’cause I was bored.
Sue Campbell: Exactly, and you thought it was great, ’cause you were six years old and so you were basically project managing me and saying, “Mom, this is good. Now go write some more,” ’cause you wanted to find out what happened.
Sue Campbell: Um, and then I spent basically the next, um, five years … it’s been almost five years since I wrote the first draft, figuring out how to actually write a novel, and we’ve learned so much since then, and everything that I’ve learned, I’ve basically passed onto you, because I love talking about it and you seem to love hearing about it.
Nora Campbell: Yeah.
Sue Campbell: So that’s kind of one of the things I want this podcast to be about. I want it to be about stories and how we look at stories, how we feel about stories, and then sharing with everybody who wants to listen. Does that sound like something you wanna do with me?
Nora Campbell: Yeah.
Sue Campbell: Okay. So speaking of story structure, let’s talk about the first little piece of structure in My Name Is Victoria. Um-
Nora Campbell: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Sue Campbell: … the inciting incident. So the thing that kicks off the whole story and- and kind of hooks the reader. What’s the exc- … the inciting incident for My Name Is Victoria?
Nora Campbell: Probably and sadly her father makes her give away her dog to Princess Victoria, just like, you know, to make a good first impression. I think it’s animal cruelty, but apparently Sir John doesn’t agree.
Sue Campbell: Wow. So that’s … you’re telling me that this father is bringing his daughter to a palace to meet Princess Victoria, and he’s gonna make her give her dog to Princess Victoria?
Nora Campbell: I know, and you know that too, and it’s horrible!
Sue Campbell: It’s really terrible. I- I was pretty horrified, and it kind of is a really great way to set up a villain, right? Like a dad who would ask his daughter to do that, you can tell right off the bat that’s pretty messed up.
Nora Campbell: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Sue Campbell: Yeah. Um, okay, so that’s inciting incident. Um, I thought maybe in each podcast we could cover another element of story structure so that we don’t pile it onto everybody.
Nora Campbell: Yeah, and also you didn’t wanna spoil the end.
Sue Campbell: And I don’t wanna spoil the end. I’ve read, um, maybe the first quarter of this book, and Nora’s read the whole thing, and she had to tell me some critical pieces before we started recording, and yeah, there’s some big spoilers, so we don’t wanna spoil this. So please check out, um, My Name Is Victoria by Lucy Worsley.
Sue Campbell: And, um, Nora, I know you ha- … you think this is pretty controversial, but I was speculating that maybe Lucy Worsley, because she’s actually, you know, a historian and a BBC presenter and has a lot going on, that maybe she has a ghost writer for these, you know, young adult or middle grade novels (laughs).
Nora Campbell: She does not. You’re totally lying. I’m going to write to Lucy Worsley, she will be offended.
Sue Campbell: She might … she might be offended, um, she could. But Lucy Worsley, if you do have a ghost writer, you’ve made excellent choices, but, uh, I would be available for that capacity for you because this is-
Nora Campbell: Now it sounds like sales pitch.
Sue Campbell: (laughs) We just got to seize every opportunity, right? In case someone’s listening.
Nora Campbell: I don’t think she’s listening.
Sue Campbell: Probably not.
Nora Campbell: But I won’t say that in case she is.
Sue Campbell: If she was listening, what would you wanna tell her? Because you’ve been watching so many Lucy Worsley things for so long, what do you wanna say to her?
Nora Campbell: That her documentaries are great, and so her … are her w- … are her eyebrows, no matter what you say.
Sue Campbell: (laughs) There were just a few early television appearances where her eyebrows were-
Nora Campbell: She has great eyebrows!
Sue Campbell: She does, she’s adorable and she’s brilliant and I totally love her, and I will be a- a Lucy Worsley fan, um, for the rest of my life. It’s fun doing a podcast with you.
Nora Campbell: It’s fun doing a podcast with you too.
Sue Campbell: So thanks for listening. This has been the first ever episode of the Mommy’s Pen Podcast, please visit us online at mommyspen.com and sign up for the mailing list, ’cause we have some very cool subscriber only perks planned for the future.
Nora Campbell: You sound like a flight attendant.